作者 主题: 如何让设定变得有趣和吸引人?  (阅读 3374 次)

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Re: 如何让设定变得有趣和吸引人?
« 回帖 #60 于: 2019-03-09, 周六 02:07:53 »
    举个例子,同样实力的制作组做一个高度策略的美少女卡牌对战游戏,和一个“流行于某种外星海绵状智慧生命体的三操作界面四维棋类游戏”,即使复杂程度大同小异有趣程度见仁见智,哪个能吸引更多人来玩也是显而易见的。

    这也是海灵想表达的一个观点:只为了自己开团写的设定完全可以筛出几个觉得异星海绵生命体非常有趣的奇怪家伙一起折腾,不用考虑其他正常人的看法;但相反,如果目的是吸引更多人使用你的战役设定,那你就不能用这么古怪(但对特定人群未必不有趣)的题材。

    说到底有趣不有趣是一个主观判断,而能吸引多少人是一个绝对的客观标准,不能当成一码事……
23:37:26<zghzgh1779> 在第二日的凌晨,太阳还在远海海面下泛着黯淡绿光时,你们就站在了羯栏城外的临时营地门前,准备返回鸣京。
23:37:54<zghzgh1779> 送行的只有梅本彩梨和她的旗本亲卫。
23:38:24<zghzgh1779> “祝诸君武运昌隆。”她说。
23:39:21<zghzgh1779> 然后她踟蹰半晌,才抬起头来,看着高大的鬼武士的双眼说道,“在一切事了后,请早些回家,仁。”

——————————与此同时,在骰房里——————————

23:41:47<谏山仁> 海灵这是要我死啊(

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Re: 如何让设定变得有趣和吸引人?
« 回帖 #61 于: 2019-03-09, 周六 03:41:00 »
那么哪里可以玩到这个在异星海绵生命体之间流行的三操作界面四维棋类游戏呢?

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Re: 如何让设定变得有趣和吸引人?
« 回帖 #62 于: 2019-03-09, 周六 04:30:03 »
那么哪里可以玩到这个在异星海绵生命体之间流行的三操作界面四维棋类游戏呢?

:em026
(There's the sponge thing at least, and instead of 4D you have 3D.)
(Actually, think of it this way:
You dream of a 异星海绵生命体之间流行的三操作界面四维棋 at home.
But for various reasons regarding production/reception/price/target consumers, what you can sell is a spongebob board game.
That's the mass compromise. :em017 YAY, there's no BKN this ti  :em031 Sorry.)

Anyhow, "being popular" is always abstract: One thing got hot despite of all naysayers, and then 99999 things tried to copy that as if its a "formula".

The 1/100000 do exist, but its much easier to go for 999999 that's all. :em012
« 上次编辑: 2019-03-09, 周六 04:36:15 由 Mounrou »
I just can't grasp Chinese Input, so I can only handwrite.
It takes me about 10 times as much to write Chinese on the PC than English, plus the finger pains... >3<

So unless it's VERY important, I'll just do English.

Give me a holler if you can't do English though and I'll try to accommodate. -w-b
(Except Grammar Nazis cause, you know, THEY'RE RELATED TO NAZIS!!! And pretty impolite to boot too. =_+\ )
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Re: 如何让设定变得有趣和吸引人?
« 回帖 #63 于: 2019-03-09, 周六 04:48:57 »
Another example about self vs mass interest, this time from myself:

I wrote this (and ran 1.5 times  :em032 ) 6 years ago:

引用
UNION 50


<背景>


時間是現在。

你已經死了。

在被告知這事實時,你已是僅存於某電腦系統中的人格範本。失去名字與絕大部份記憶,你被秘密組織『保存庫(The Repository)』所保留的唯一原因,就是要成為『代號UNION 50』計劃的執行成員之一。

『代號UNION 50』。絕大部份詳情都籠罩於機密之中,你只需要知道它的存在意義:為防備並解決各種有可能發生、沒可能發生、以及只能存在於理論上之各種危機。每當出動命令抵達,你便會被下載至從五十個待備肉體中隨機抽樣選出之一個,並以手上僅有之能力及資源,迅速及完美地達成任務。

這些資料本身便己充滿疑團:從你僅餘的記憶中,你知道『保存庫』所擁有的科技完全是超越現代的;『代號UNION 50』亦不被任何政府或集團承認;而執行任務所用的下載肉體怎麼會是隨機抽樣?最重要是為什麼會選上只是普通人的你了?

這些問題都沒有被解答的餘地。選擇NO的答案只會被人一鍵刪除,即使生存方式已經改變,在這一刻你至少仍舊『活著』。

除卻不容許調查『保存庫』和『UNION 50』,以及不准與外界任何人仕連絡以外,組職並未限制你們任何自由。而在習慣以後,作為人格範本的生活方式也可以活得不錯。

然後某一天,任務就來了......

So, focus of game is:
>Superpower game. (Based on the comics H.E.R.O. and Resurrection Man)
>You get random superpowers.
>You switch powers by dying and getting a new body.

And most of the feedback back then were:
>How do I choose which powers I want. - (You don't)
>How do I not die in the game. - (You could, but you don't get to switch powers.)
>I don't get it. - (Bodyswitching Cyberpunk wasn't a thing yet, even if we already had GITS)

See, public demands and design goals here were complete opposite.

I could change it (and I did, just a teeny little bit) so its less random, or even overhaul it so that it plays like every other superpower games out there, but... That would make it just like every other superpower games out there.  :em016

(Plus I just wasn't a very good GM, cause I stall, and that's lethal in forum games.)

So, finished the system, sealed it, and moved on.

Like I said, what you choose to do is personal. Trying to be more popular though... Requires compromise.
« 上次编辑: 2019-03-09, 周六 04:50:33 由 Mounrou »
I just can't grasp Chinese Input, so I can only handwrite.
It takes me about 10 times as much to write Chinese on the PC than English, plus the finger pains... >3<

So unless it's VERY important, I'll just do English.

Give me a holler if you can't do English though and I'll try to accommodate. -w-b
(Except Grammar Nazis cause, you know, THEY'RE RELATED TO NAZIS!!! And pretty impolite to boot too. =_+\ )
FB Prototyping Area

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Re: 如何让设定变得有趣和吸引人?
« 回帖 #64 于: 2019-03-15, 周五 00:25:53 »
不懂為何random power會是self interest? 這哪裡cool?
A good game is a series of interesting choices. -- Sid Meier

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Re: 如何让设定变得有趣和吸引人?
« 回帖 #65 于: 2019-03-15, 周五 04:37:49 »
不懂為何random power會是self interest? 這哪裡cool?

See, that's exactly it.

I didn't actually think that far at the time. It was after a while that I figured it out:

Roleplaying games always have an element of control that is beyond regular life.

Take the typical murderhobo for example:
A ) You completely spec your character attributes & abilities to every detail <-> You cannot do that (for now at least) and has to settle with mostly what you physically have when you are born.
B ) You can custom your character's gears at an every increasing environmental limit <-> You always reach a certain limit in life one way or the other, whether that be physical, economical, cultural, lawful, etc.
C ) You can largely do whatever you want with little repercussions <-> There are ALWAYS consequences in life, even for "good" things. 

Characters in fictions, like MacGuyvers who's pretty much the modern rouge trapster/artificer, or LN protagonists given "useless" powers and then used them to crush their intellectually-retardant bit-villains... You can do that with readers, but you cannot do that with Players.

Design Goals for that game was kind of a Macguyver/LN-ish type:
> You don't get whatever you want (Even though the standard 50 given powersets were already "OP" comparing to 80% of everything you'll ever meet. Seriously we're talking about absolute invincibility to the point of not having an HP stat, or ability to control direction of gravity, to complete invisibility to technology, etc.) But you'll always have something.
> That "don't get but have" idea means you pretty much have to coordinate with your teammates to get the "optimal" outcome. (Blowing everything up is actually very simple with powers + infinite lives, except that you don't get to be a hero if you do that here, it being a covert ops setting where most goals involved getting things done without anyone knowing something's wrong.) Or even if every PC's abilities were mismatch, you could quickly change that... Or stick with it and think on your feet cause, again, infinite lives.
> As you start with a blank background and use ingame mechanics to fill out character details at a step-by-step pace, - ie. You activate your Drama Points by answering questions about bits of your past lives, kinda like How 3:16 did it. - it was supposed to be character focused.

It's a MacGuyver-ish game about character-pieces, and maybe one that's completely opposite to the commonly used goals for RPG. (Again, unintentional. This was 3 projects ago and I didn't even think about it that much until this thread came up.)

(Or those d100-based AA-comics... Those are quite good despite being in near absolute chaos.)

But for me that's interesting. Maybe exactly because I am the type who NEVER put myself in the protagonist's shoes: I am the type that's curious about what and how the characters get themselves out of the situation they are in, and never want to be in them in the first place. It's their life, and I have mine, and the boundary between the two is always well defined. (That's kinda why I am sorta annoyed with about 80% of the modern webnovels: MCs and writers just don't treat the other characters as human beings but objects to acquire or break, or goalposts to overcome. It's... Boring.)

A situation beyond me or my player's absolute grasp, with no guaranteed "conventionally certain" 1>2>3>4 step by step, where people have to overcome the situation with wit more so than stats and maybe showed a bit of their personal characters in between... That's the stories I wanted to read. And the position of a GM could be a pretty good front row seat, if all you wanted was to see a good show regardless of outcome, instead of trying to make all actors the puppet of your whims.

So I made a game out of it.  :em008

But I've long accepted the fact that "My Interesting Isn't Your Interesting." Speaking from quantities, as an Entertainment Product the mass will always be right on these issues. So its perfectly fine if nobody likes it.

It is what I think of as "Cool", though not the only thing, and that more "typical" goals are just as "Cool" too.

And like I said, its really not hard to change everything. Every new project after the previous is in a sense a "change" as that all based on the creators' previous experience. Most of my other stuffs are probably more conventional... Or so I hope.  :em016

But I at least can reserve the right to like my own stuffs, given that "being popular" is not really one of my goalpost. (Come on, look at what language I am typing in... Orz.) "Enjoying myself while being mostly harmless" is pretty much my current sole priority. =w=b

So, back to thread topic: "How many effort are you willing to go to get yourself popular?"
PR & Brans are just methods & shortcuts.
You still need to consider compromises after those stuffs are done.

Other than that, I can only say, "Don't do what I do?"  :em032
« 上次编辑: 2019-03-15, 周五 08:23:50 由 Mounrou »
I just can't grasp Chinese Input, so I can only handwrite.
It takes me about 10 times as much to write Chinese on the PC than English, plus the finger pains... >3<

So unless it's VERY important, I'll just do English.

Give me a holler if you can't do English though and I'll try to accommodate. -w-b
(Except Grammar Nazis cause, you know, THEY'RE RELATED TO NAZIS!!! And pretty impolite to boot too. =_+\ )
FB Prototyping Area