作者 主题: 来讨论下最多4pc 6logo条件下的综合通用普适队伍配置吧- -  (阅读 6326 次)

副标题: 优先pfs吧。。。其他的想说也可以。。。

离线 snowknight

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嗯,如果更多考虑非核心职业的话,该怎么弄更有技术含量?魔战+战歌+女巫+医疗萨满怎么样?
白雪諾 10/18/12/13/10/16 | LG 人类 男性 | 义洛理圣武2| HP 21/21 | AC 20(16 tch, 14 fl) | CMD 16 | F7 R7 W6 | 先攻+4 | 骑术+7,生存+3,魔法装置+5,唬骗+5,杂技+7,驯养动物+7|普通视觉 |随意攻击 AB+6,DMG 1D8| 随意侦测气池|试炼(1/1) +1| 圣疗(4/4)1D6+3正能量
赵灵儿 20/13/10/05/08/18 | LG 娜迦裔 女性 | 神圣使徒圣武4| HP 32/32 | AC 22(14 tch, 18 fl) | CMD 21 | F8 R6 W7 | 先攻+1 | 宗教+1,位面-1,交涉+8|昏暗视觉 |随意攻击 AB+8,DMG 2D8+7| 随意侦测邪恶|制裁(1/1) +4,毁灭(1/1) +1| 圣疗(6/6+3/3)2D6正能量|勇气灵光,病免,移除疲乏,引导正能量,法术1,领域1
4E模组恐怖墓穴汉化全本放出http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=131767.0

离线 星踪幻影

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嗯,如果更多考虑非核心职业的话,该怎么弄更有技术含量?魔战+战歌+女巫+医疗萨满怎么样?
歌者不行,坑人歌
你是光,我是影。光照耀着影,影守护着光。我们是最疏离的双生子,我们是最亲密的陌生人...

离线 opervaer

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换个想法怎样

让一个或两个人可以但是不完美的承担队伍需求
然后让其他人车自己喜欢的卡 :em001

比如死灵学派的学派家(奥能师变体)进阶传音者
靠万用导能选择导能快速导能,再加个引导正能量经匣,治疗量不如牧师也没有各种神术恢复,凑活能奶
奥术施法不如有各种专长支持的法师还会少cl不过姑且是9环施法者
传音6+的技能点加专家送两个任意本职,技能方面也还能用

总之施法不如法师纯奥能师,治疗不如牧师,技能不如诗人但能代替他们
而且来一个专精某项的其他职业也不会抢他们的风头

类似的比如神奥双修秘术师,贼法的诡术什么的

这样其他人需要补的就不是很多,车卡方面会自由一点

(秘术师带武僧贼游荡剑客?诡术师带虫人战兽人蛮娜迦审判者?)

(法师,去开锁。法师,潜行进去。法师,回个血。法师,搜索一下附近。法师,上去交涉。
法师:日 :em015

离线 涅薇儿·德拉诺尔

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诡术的法贼前置其实已经被施法贼变体比较完美代替了(不考虑环的升级空间和效率只考虑CL的话)
下辈子一定要当个蛮子,免得想太多。
帕拉丁冲锋破鞋必出1,这是一种真理
每当我出carry的时候总有人抢中路,每当我出辅助的时候总让我去中单
自从当了DM,豁免骰那是一个比一个大……
[21:54] <玛多卡> .r d20+13 出1我就掀桌
[21:54] <DnDBot> 玛多卡 投擲 出1我就掀桌: 1d20+13=(1)+13=14

离线 snowknight

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换个想法怎样

让一个或两个人可以但是不完美的承担队伍需求
然后让其他人车自己喜欢的卡 :em001

比如死灵学派的学派家(奥能师变体)进阶传音者
靠万用导能选择导能快速导能,再加个引导正能量经匣,治疗量不如牧师也没有各种神术恢复,凑活能奶
奥术施法不如有各种专长支持的法师还会少cl不过姑且是9环施法者
传音6+的技能点加专家送两个任意本职,技能方面也还能用

总之施法不如法师纯奥能师,治疗不如牧师,技能不如诗人但能代替他们
而且来一个专精某项的其他职业也不会抢他们的风头

类似的比如神奥双修秘术师,贼法的诡术什么的

这样其他人需要补的就不是很多,车卡方面会自由一点

(秘术师带武僧贼游荡剑客?诡术师带虫人战兽人蛮娜迦审判者?)

(法师,去开锁。法师,潜行进去。法师,回个血。法师,搜索一下附近。法师,上去交涉。
法师:日 :em015

1、传音的问题在于也就神恩和慢一级拿能力是个亮点  对于1/2bab的职业基本不赔 是个好主意 缺点在于没有哪方面特别优化
2、法系的hd偏低 开锁潜行啥的风险真的是不小的 还是让圣武士去趟雷吧
3、双修秘书的问题在于没有类似职业填等级,如果秘书职业能到14级就完美了。。。
4、很多职业压根没有存在感。。。或者说数据上没有必须存在的意义,导致选的人也少。。比如武士啊忍者啊侠客啊变性者啊游荡剑客啊吸血鬼猎人啊什么的
5、实际上最能带队的不是德鲁伊么。。。德鲁伊+秘术师+诗人+生命萨满。。。感觉好万金油。。缺重甲的样子。。
6、圣武+血怒+游侠+? 这样的4环菜刀组合,高级后似乎也很靠谱?
白雪諾 10/18/12/13/10/16 | LG 人类 男性 | 义洛理圣武2| HP 21/21 | AC 20(16 tch, 14 fl) | CMD 16 | F7 R7 W6 | 先攻+4 | 骑术+7,生存+3,魔法装置+5,唬骗+5,杂技+7,驯养动物+7|普通视觉 |随意攻击 AB+6,DMG 1D8| 随意侦测气池|试炼(1/1) +1| 圣疗(4/4)1D6+3正能量
赵灵儿 20/13/10/05/08/18 | LG 娜迦裔 女性 | 神圣使徒圣武4| HP 32/32 | AC 22(14 tch, 18 fl) | CMD 21 | F8 R6 W7 | 先攻+1 | 宗教+1,位面-1,交涉+8|昏暗视觉 |随意攻击 AB+8,DMG 2D8+7| 随意侦测邪恶|制裁(1/1) +4,毁灭(1/1) +1| 圣疗(6/6+3/3)2D6正能量|勇气灵光,病免,移除疲乏,引导正能量,法术1,领域1
4E模组恐怖墓穴汉化全本放出http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=131767.0

离线 丞相

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  • 还算可以的玩家,以及不行的GM
秘术师这职业看着就不美,用起来也不美,因为就算是快9环,低等级慢1环半的进度,比6环表还不如,要到10级拿4环才追上6环进度,但是除了法术没有职业能力伤的要死,要到16级拿到10级满秘术才算是及格。
但是如果你是法师3+牧师3+秘术10,那你同时需要智力和感知,双需属性能把人憋半死。如果你想统一属性,就至少有一个是慢9环,那就慢了正常快9环职业2个环位,法术更加没有压制力,只有提供大量廉价法术buff菜刀的价值,而且升到20级都没有9环。是一个基本只有16-17级可以玩一玩的职业。泛用性极低。
女王的杂技团
见识短浅的调查员手册作者
优化一塌糊涂的三流玩家
开团必炸团的垃圾GM
看不懂英文的翻译
——丞相

离线 白貓

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如標題所說的綜合通用普適隊伍的話,而不是只想著踢門的話,我覺得隊伍中還是需要九環準備型施法者,在戰鬥外常常可以發揮重大效果。
雅各之塔(Jacob's Tower) 個人翻譯的Pathfinder RPG非官方長篇系列冒險模組,一系列13個模組共17萬字,每個模組皆可獨立抽出使用。(已出版,商品頁面) 全彩地圖素材包
[PF]魔戰士變體大全
Pathfinder v2.0Pathfinder RPG的規則資源合集電子書,絕讚好評廢貓中。

离线 opervaer

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关于法贼嘛
我更喜欢有一定偷袭优势的法师,
施法贼虽好,还得要9环啊


法系拆陷阱也是没办法,其他人各种脆皮+肌肉脑,一踩雷就晕,运气不好就死······倒是需要潜行的都是莽过去的,

秘术师可以试试6+9环,或者拿一些奇葩表,比如诗人表,猎人表,审判者表。魔战表。审判者表里面的祷言系列只要迅捷动作,很不错

游荡剑客挺时髦的,有的人沉迷火影忍者,侠客cos蝙蝠侠,这个更多是兴趣,战斗力只能说凑活,有一些强力的构筑,但是更多的还是弱

能带队的bd很多,侧重也不同,我是因为更喜欢9环奥术,所以更多地从“拥有大量其他能力的法师”这方面下手,
德鲁伊?诗人?萨满?神术和没到9的奥术跟我不熟(滑稽)

要看高级是怎样的高级,10多级还是够用,15-18左右没传送飞行光靠腿很难玩,20+传奇等级需要去异位面星界的没有随队的高等传送异界之门许愿术奇迹术,那就是行路难啊,不能天天撕卷走路吧
话说pf有传奇模组吗?我是以3r经验评(口)论(胡)的,pf我还没跑过14级以上的团
战斗方面倒是不怕,pf法系不像以前die or save,现在菜刀能砍死法师,就是打一次法师撕一张空间锁或者次元锚而已。
至于怪物?四菜刀冲锋一轮砍死一条老龙我一点都不吃惊。碎刀魔战,超越型暴击蛮,千手百裂僧神马的,怪物频出恐怖如斯(害怕.jpg)

离线 snowknight

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好吧  由于输出力后期是如此的溢出,那么先不管菜刀了,打造一把锐锋菜刀并非难事。我觉得更难的是下边的问题:

1、考虑配成一队的条件下,单体综合评分最强的神术9环、奥术9环、坦克位、第4位分别是什么?
2、输出型队伍是不是比泛用型队伍更好用?或者说只要做个3菜刀1万金油之类的简单修改也能达到很好的效果?
3、有哪些非核心职业的build,实力和造型都帅的值得推荐?
白雪諾 10/18/12/13/10/16 | LG 人类 男性 | 义洛理圣武2| HP 21/21 | AC 20(16 tch, 14 fl) | CMD 16 | F7 R7 W6 | 先攻+4 | 骑术+7,生存+3,魔法装置+5,唬骗+5,杂技+7,驯养动物+7|普通视觉 |随意攻击 AB+6,DMG 1D8| 随意侦测气池|试炼(1/1) +1| 圣疗(4/4)1D6+3正能量
赵灵儿 20/13/10/05/08/18 | LG 娜迦裔 女性 | 神圣使徒圣武4| HP 32/32 | AC 22(14 tch, 18 fl) | CMD 21 | F8 R6 W7 | 先攻+1 | 宗教+1,位面-1,交涉+8|昏暗视觉 |随意攻击 AB+8,DMG 2D8+7| 随意侦测邪恶|制裁(1/1) +4,毁灭(1/1) +1| 圣疗(6/6+3/3)2D6正能量|勇气灵光,病免,移除疲乏,引导正能量,法术1,领域1
4E模组恐怖墓穴汉化全本放出http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=131767.0

离线 白貓

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引用
2、输出型队伍是不是比泛用型队伍更好用?或者说只要做个3菜刀1万金油之类的简单修改也能达到很好的效果?

你的標題不是綜合通用普適隊伍嗎 ==

這個頂多頂多只適用於PFS吧,在AP或自設團裡一點都行不通。

我對於你說的綜合通用普適隊伍的定義,類似於一些老外的tier list裡的評價方法,不止局陷於戰鬥,而是在任何情境下隊伍能應對的能力。

看到有些人會對老外的一些tier list嗤之以鼻,廢話,因為那表本來就不是以戰鬥力去排的。


劇透裡有老外給的情境範例和每個tier的職業在這些情境中能應對的程度。(3.5版本)
劇透 -   :
Situation 1: A Black Dragon has been plaguing an area, and he lives in a trap filled cave. Deal with him.

Situation 2: You have been tasked by a nearby country with making contact with the leader of the underground slave resistance of an evil tyranical city state, and get him to trust you.

Situation 3: A huge army of Orcs is approaching the city, and should be here in a week or so. Help the city prepare for war.

Okay, so, here we go.

Tier 6: A Commoner. Situation 1: If he's REALLY optimized, he could be a threat to the dragon, but a single attack from the dragon could take him out too. He can't really offer help getting to said dragon. He could fill up the entire cave with chickens, but that's probably not a good idea. Really, he's dead weight unless his build was perfectly optimized for this situation (see my Commoner charger build for an example). Situation 2: Well, without any stealth abilities or diplomacy, he's not too handy here, again unless he's been exactly optimized for this precise thing (such as through Martial Study to get Diplomacy). Really, again his class isn't going to help much here. Situation 3: Again, no help from his class, though the chicken thing might be amusing if you're creative.

Tier 5: A Fighter. Situation 1: If he's optimized for this sort of thing (a tripper might have trouble, though a charger would be handy if he could get off a clear shot, and an archer would likely work) he can be a threat during the main fight, but he's probably just about useless for sneaking down through the cave and avoiding any traps the dragon has set out without alerting said dragon. Most likely the party Rogue would want to hide him in a bag of holding or something. Once in the fight if he's optimized he'll be solid, but if not (if he's a traditional SAB build or a dual weilding monkey grip type) he's going to be a liability in the combat (though not as bad as the Commoner). Situation 2: As the commoner before, his class really won't help here. His class just doesn't provide any useful tools for the job. It's possible (but very unlikely) that he's optimized in a way that helps in this situation, just as with the Commoner. Situation 3: Again, his class doesn't help much, but at least he could be pretty useful during the main battle as a front line trooper of some sort. Hack up the enemy and rack up a body count.

Tier 4: The Rogue. Situation 1: Well he can certainly help get the party to the dragon, even if he's not totally optimized for it. His stealth and detection abilities will come in handy here, and if he puts the less stealthy people in portable holes and the like he's good to go. During the combat he's likely not that helpful (it's hard to sneak attack a dragon) but if he had a lot of prep time he might have been able to snag a scroll or wand of Shivering Touch, in which case he could be extremely helpful... he just has to be really prepared and on the ball, and the resources have to be available in advance. He's quite squishy though, and that dragon is a serious threat. Situation 2: With his stealth and diplomacy, he's all over this. Maybe not 100% perfect, but still pretty darn solid. An individual build might not have all the necessary skills, but most should be able to make do. Situation 3: Perhaps he can use Gather Information and such to gain strategic advantages before the battle... that would be handy. There's a few he's pretty likely to be able to pull off. He might even be able to use Diplomacy to buff the army a bit and at least get them into a good morale situation pre battle. Or, if he's a different set up, he could perhaps go out and assassinate a few of the orc commanders before the fight, which could be handy. And then during the fight he could do the same. It's not incredible, but it's something.

Tier 3: The Beguiler. Situation 1: Again, getting through the cave is easy, perhaps easier with spell support. And again, if he's really prepared in advance, Shivering Touch via UMD is a possibility. But he's also got spells that could be quite useful here depending on the situation, and if he's optimized heavily, this is going to be pretty easy... Shadowcraft Mage, perhaps? Or Earth Dreamer? Either way, he's got a lot of available options, though like the Rogue he's somewhat squishy (and that Dragon won't fall for many illusions with his Blindsense) so he still needs that party support. Situation 2: Again, with his skills he's all over this one, plus the added ability to cast spells like charm makes this one much easier, allowing him to make contacts in the city quickly while he figures out where this guy is. Situation 3: Like the Rogue, he can get strategic advantages and be all over the Diplomacy. He's not quite as good at assassinating people if he takes that route (though sneaking up invisible and then using a coup de gras with a scythe is pretty darn effective), but using illusions during the fight will create some serious chaos in his favor. A single illusion of a wall of fire can really disrupt enemy formations, for example.

Tier 2: The Sorcerer. Situation 1: It really depends on the Sorcerer's spell load out. If he's got Greater Floating Disk, Spectral Hand, and Shivering Touch, this one's going to be easy as pie, since he can just float down (and carry his party in the process) to avoid many traps, then nail the dragon in one shot from a distance. If he doesn't he'd need scrolls with the same issues that the UMD Rogue and Beguiler would need. If he's got Explosive Runes he could create a bomb that would take out the Dragon in one shot. If he's got Polymorph he could turn the party melee into a Hydra for extra damage. If he's got Alter Self he could turn himself into a Skulk to get down there sneakily. Certainly, it's possible that the Sorcerer could own this scenario... if he has the right spells known. That's always the hard part for a Sorcerer. Situation 2: Again, depends on the spell. Does he have divinations that will help him know who's part of the resistance and who's actually an evil spy for the Tyranical Govenerment? Does he have charm? Alter Self would help a ton here too for disguise purposes if he has it. Once again, the options exist that could totally make this easy, but he might not have those options. Runestaffs would help a bit, but not that much. Scrolls would help too, but that requires access to them and good long term preparation. Situation 3: Again, does he have Wall of Iron or Wall of Stone to make fortifications? Does he have Wall of Fire to disrupt the battlefield? How about Mind Rape and Love's Pain to kill off the enemy commanders without any ability to stop him? Does he have Blinding Glory on his spell list, or Shapechange, or Gate? Well, maybe. He's got the power, but if his spells known don't apply here he can't do much. So, maybe he dominates this one, maybe not.

Tier 1: The Wizard. Situation 1: Memorize Greater Floating Disk, Shivering Touch, and Spectral Hand. Maybe Alter Self too for stealth reasons. Kill dragon. Memorize Animate Dead too, because Dragons make great minions (seriously, there's special rules for using that spell on dragons). Sweet, you have a new horsie! Or, you know, maybe you Mind Rape/Love's Pain and kill the dragon before he even knows you exist, then float down and check it out. Or maybe you create a horde of the dead and send them in, triggering the traps with their bodies. Or do the haunt shift trick and waltz in with a hardness of around 80 and giggle. Perhaps you cast Genesis to create a flowing time plane and then sit and think about what to do for a year while only a day passes on the outside... and cast Explosive Runes every day during that year. I'm sure you can come up with something. It's really your call. Situation 2: Check your spell list. Alter Self and Disguise Self can make you look like whoever you need to look like. Locate Creature has obvious utility. Heck, Contact Other Plane could be a total cheating method of finding the guy you're trying to find. Clairvoyance is also handy. It's all there. Situation 3: Oh no, enemy army! Well, if you've optimized for it, there's always the locate city bomb (just be careful not to blow up the friendly guys too). But if not, Love's Pain could assassinate the leaders. Wall of Iron/Stone could create fortifications, or be combined with Fabricate to armour up some of the troops. Or you could just cast Blinding Glory and now the entire enemy army is blind with no save for caster level hours. Maybe you could Planar Bind an appropriate outsider to help train the troops before the battle. Push comes to shove, Gate in a Solar, who can cast Miracle (which actually does have a "I win the battle" option)... or just Shapechange into one, if you prefer.
劇透 -   :
Noven不要來回我

情境一:凥爆就好了
情境二:凥爆就好了
情境三:凥爆就好了

這也是為什麼九環準備施法者在那些tier list中都是t1的原因,因為理論上只要有時間準備,幾乎總是能在法術列表中找到對於該情境有幫助的法術。
理論的原因是DM可能不會開到相關的擴展書本,或是玩家本身的閱讀量不夠,但是在評價職業本身時,應該扣掉這些職業以外的因素。
« 上次编辑: 2018-05-16, 周三 21:42:08 由 白貓 »
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