純美蘋果園
TRPG討論區 => 研討區 => 3版 討論區 => 主题作者是: Ocydia 于 2013-08-23, 周五 08:39:51
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设定场景如下
13级或更高等级的duskblade在一次全回合攻击中引导了吸血鬼之触并攻击了四个敌人(加速术或旋风攻击)，四次攻击分别造成了 182 180 185 296(重击，杀死该敌人，其hp为280)伤害。此次攻击获得的临时hp该如何计算？因为引导的一直是同一个吸血鬼之触（参见下面的规则原文），我个人理解可以将所有造成的有效伤害合计来计算所获得的hp(837临时生命)，还是只取最大的一次伤害计算(290临时生命)？
吸血鬼之触法术详述
Vampiric Touch
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous/1 hour; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.
Duskblade职业描述中关于全回合攻击中奥术引导的部分
At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round.
另附两条可能相关的FAQ
At 13th level, the duskblade’s arcane channeling class feature (PH2 20) says “you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round.” If you hit the same creature more than once during the full attack action, does the spell affect it each time you hit?
No. The spell affects each target only once.
If a rogue delivered a sneak attack with the vampiric touch spell, would the extra damage from the sneak attack also give her extra hit points? And could the sneak attack dice allow her to exceed the maximum damage allowed by the spell?
Yes and yes. The spell simply says that you “gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal.” The spell doesn’t seem to care how you get to that value (Empower Spell, sneak attack, and so on), so a rogue who delivered 50 points of damage with vampiric touch would gain 50 temporary hit points. The maximum damage listed for the spell only applies to the damage gained by your caster level; it doesn’t take into account any other benefits the character might have, such as sneak attack damage.
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转一段规则原文好了
Temporary Hit Points
Through magic or the use of special abilities, a creature can
gain a number of hit points called temporary hit points.
When a creature gains temporary hit points, note its current
hit point total. If the temporary hit points go away through
a means other than damage, the creature’s hit points drop to
its current hit point total. If the creature has taken damage so
that its hit points are equal to or lower than the noted current
hit point total when the temporary hit points go away, all the
temporary hit points have already been lost. The creature’s
hit point total doesn’t drop further.
Temporary hit points gained from multiple applications
of the same effect don’t stack. Instead, the highest number
of temporary hit points gained from that effect apply.
If temporary hit points are gained from multiple, different
sources that stack, keep track of those sources and when they
were gained separately. Any damage taken is first subtracted
from the oldest effect that granted temporary hit points.
When those are gone, subtract damage from the next oldest
effect, and so on.
When temporary hit points are lost, they can’t be restored
like normal hit points can be, even by magic.
在一个讨论临时生命值是否叠加的帖子里面找到的，给后面的讨论者用于参考
http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=38959.0
四次不同的吸血鬼之触是无法叠加的，但是在本例中，是由一次吸血鬼之触形成的四次临时生命。此时是否算multiple applications
of the same effect呢？
请后面的同学发表下看法。
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我认为是取最大，但是应该是290点临时HP
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你们都被楼主骗了！
吸血鬼之触给的临时生命只是这个法术造成的伤害，近战武器给的是不算的。至于FAQ里面提到的sa伤害是因为weapon-like spell可以sa所以贼用的话会附带sa伤害这个伤害是有法术带来的可以计入临时生命。
所以再怎么判也出不来200多临时生命，根据临时生命的同源不叠加原则，应该算四次攻击中吸血鬼之触的nd6投出的最大值计入临时生命。
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转一段规则原文好了
Temporary Hit Points
Through magic or the use of special abilities, a creature can
gain a number of hit points called temporary hit points.
When a creature gains temporary hit points, note its current
hit point total. If the temporary hit points go away through
a means other than damage, the creature’s hit points drop to
its current hit point total. If the creature has taken damage so
that its hit points are equal to or lower than the noted current
hit point total when the temporary hit points go away, all the
temporary hit points have already been lost. The creature’s
hit point total doesn’t drop further.
Temporary hit points gained from multiple applications
of the same effect don’t stack. Instead, the highest number
of temporary hit points gained from that effect apply.
If temporary hit points are gained from multiple, different
sources that stack, keep track of those sources and when they
were gained separately. Any damage taken is first subtracted
from the oldest effect that granted temporary hit points.
When those are gone, subtract damage from the next oldest
effect, and so on.
When temporary hit points are lost, they can’t be restored
like normal hit points can be, even by magic.
在一个讨论临时生命值是否叠加的帖子里面找到的，给后面的讨论者用于参考
http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=38959.0
四次不同的吸血鬼之触是无法叠加的，但是在本例中，是由一次吸血鬼之触形成的四次临时生命。此时是否算multiple applications
of the same effect呢？
请后面的同学发表下看法。
回复完之后才发现我两年多以前的帖子被引用了……感慨万分
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转一段规则原文好了
Temporary Hit Points
Through magic or the use of special abilities, a creature can
gain a number of hit points called temporary hit points.
When a creature gains temporary hit points, note its current
hit point total. If the temporary hit points go away through
a means other than damage, the creature’s hit points drop to
its current hit point total. If the creature has taken damage so
that its hit points are equal to or lower than the noted current
hit point total when the temporary hit points go away, all the
temporary hit points have already been lost. The creature’s
hit point total doesn’t drop further.
Temporary hit points gained from multiple applications
of the same effect don’t stack. Instead, the highest number
of temporary hit points gained from that effect apply.
If temporary hit points are gained from multiple, different
sources that stack, keep track of those sources and when they
were gained separately. Any damage taken is first subtracted
from the oldest effect that granted temporary hit points.
When those are gone, subtract damage from the next oldest
effect, and so on.
When temporary hit points are lost, they can’t be restored
like normal hit points can be, even by magic.
在一个讨论临时生命值是否叠加的帖子里面找到的，给后面的讨论者用于参考
http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=38959.0
四次不同的吸血鬼之触是无法叠加的，但是在本例中，是由一次吸血鬼之触形成的四次临时生命。此时是否算multiple applications
of the same effect呢？
请后面的同学发表下看法。
算不算multiple stack其实压根无所谓。
举例说，假如你同时拥有28、26、33、42四个临时生命效果，自然是取高42点。这时候如果你受到20点伤害，临时生命值就会变成22点。
到这里都没什么疑问吧……那么，由于你的其他三个临时生命高于22，你的临时hp会变成次高的33么？
答案是……不会。你拥有的四个临时生命条是同步折损的。也就是说，你受到20点伤害后，你依旧拥有4个临时生命，但是其数值分别变成了8、6、13、22。
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吸血鬼触是”造成的伤害”而不是“造成的法术伤害“吧？所以引导的话加上武器伤害也没错吧
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我认为是取最大，但是应该是290点临时HP
是的，我错了。按照叙述确实是伤害量等于临时生命点数。3.0的Wrathful Healing武器附魔才是一半
吸血鬼之触给的临时生命只是这个法术造成的伤害，近战武器给的是不算的。
你自己理解错了，武器部分的伤害计入。请确认吸血鬼之触的叙述
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我没看出吸血鬼之触为什么要算武器的伤害……
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我没看出吸血鬼之触为什么要算武器的伤害……
其实有点抠字眼之嫌，不过要是某开的时候PC这么提出了，某说不定真的会许可（因为某放的怪EL基本超过PC等级两倍有多……）
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我没看出吸血鬼之触为什么要算武器的伤害……
其实有点抠字眼之嫌，不过要是某开的时候PC这么提出了，某说不定真的会许可（因为某放的怪EL基本超过PC等级两倍有多……）
所以武器基本打不中？ :em021
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我认为是取最大，但是应该是290点临时HP
是的，我错了。按照叙述确实是伤害量等于临时生命点数。3.0的Wrathful Healing武器附魔才是一半
吸血鬼之触给的临时生命只是这个法术造成的伤害，近战武器给的是不算的。
你自己理解错了，武器部分的伤害计入。请确认吸血鬼之触的叙述
我知道你想说的是哪一句。You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal.
但是请确认这句话的上下文，在说你获得和你造成的伤害等量的临时生命前面的一句话是"Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6)." 你的接触攻击会造成这么多伤害，没有理由认为因为这次攻击是由武器打出去的就把武器伤害算进去，关于偷袭伤害为什么算在里面，我觉得我在之前的回帖里面已经说的很清楚了，引用一段RC上关于法术偷袭的原文：
A successful precision damage attack with a weapon-like spell deals extra damage of the same type as the spell
normally deals unless that spell deals ability damage or ability drain, or it bestows negative levels. Spells that fall
into these categories instead deal extra hit point damage in the form of negative energy.
（注：Precision damage在RC上表示由贼的偷袭，斥候的散兵攻击和忍着的sudden attack带来的伤害）
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转一段规则原文好了
Temporary Hit Points
Through magic or the use of special abilities, a creature can
gain a number of hit points called temporary hit points.
When a creature gains temporary hit points, note its current
hit point total. If the temporary hit points go away through
a means other than damage, the creature’s hit points drop to
its current hit point total. If the creature has taken damage so
that its hit points are equal to or lower than the noted current
hit point total when the temporary hit points go away, all the
temporary hit points have already been lost. The creature’s
hit point total doesn’t drop further.
Temporary hit points gained from multiple applications
of the same effect don’t stack. Instead, the highest number
of temporary hit points gained from that effect apply.
If temporary hit points are gained from multiple, different
sources that stack, keep track of those sources and when they
were gained separately. Any damage taken is first subtracted
from the oldest effect that granted temporary hit points.
When those are gone, subtract damage from the next oldest
effect, and so on.
When temporary hit points are lost, they can’t be restored
like normal hit points can be, even by magic.
在一个讨论临时生命值是否叠加的帖子里面找到的，给后面的讨论者用于参考
http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=38959.0
四次不同的吸血鬼之触是无法叠加的，但是在本例中，是由一次吸血鬼之触形成的四次临时生命。此时是否算multiple applications
of the same effect呢？
请后面的同学发表下看法。
算不算multiple stack其实压根无所谓。
举例说，假如你同时拥有28、26、33、42四个临时生命效果，自然是取高42点。这时候如果你受到20点伤害，临时生命值就会变成22点。
到这里都没什么疑问吧……那么，由于你的其他三个临时生命高于22，你的临时hp会变成次高的33么？
答案是……不会。你拥有的四个临时生命条是同步折损的。也就是说，你受到20点伤害后，你依旧拥有4个临时生命，但是其数值分别变成了8、6、13、22。
艾斯哲酱，您需要回去仔细看规则原文，到计算HP上限的时候取高42点这里是没问题的，但是受到20点伤害之后临时生命并不是22点，因为优先扣除最先结束的那个效果。那么我们假设42点这个是最先结束的，那么他确实会被扣除成22点，此时计算HP上限的时候临时生命确实是会变成次高的33点的，因为你的4个临时生命效果会变成：28、26、33、22，这四个效果依然同时存在，根据RC的原则不难得出以上结论。
-
转一段规则原文好了
Temporary Hit Points
Through magic or the use of special abilities, a creature can
gain a number of hit points called temporary hit points.
When a creature gains temporary hit points, note its current
hit point total. If the temporary hit points go away through
a means other than damage, the creature’s hit points drop to
its current hit point total. If the creature has taken damage so
that its hit points are equal to or lower than the noted current
hit point total when the temporary hit points go away, all the
temporary hit points have already been lost. The creature’s
hit point total doesn’t drop further.
Temporary hit points gained from multiple applications
of the same effect don’t stack. Instead, the highest number
of temporary hit points gained from that effect apply.
If temporary hit points are gained from multiple, different
sources that stack, keep track of those sources and when they
were gained separately. Any damage taken is first subtracted
from the oldest effect that granted temporary hit points.
When those are gone, subtract damage from the next oldest
effect, and so on.
When temporary hit points are lost, they can’t be restored
like normal hit points can be, even by magic.
在一个讨论临时生命值是否叠加的帖子里面找到的，给后面的讨论者用于参考
http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=38959.0
四次不同的吸血鬼之触是无法叠加的，但是在本例中，是由一次吸血鬼之触形成的四次临时生命。此时是否算multiple applications
of the same effect呢？
请后面的同学发表下看法。
算不算multiple stack其实压根无所谓。
举例说，假如你同时拥有28、26、33、42四个临时生命效果，自然是取高42点。这时候如果你受到20点伤害，临时生命值就会变成22点。
到这里都没什么疑问吧……那么，由于你的其他三个临时生命高于22，你的临时hp会变成次高的33么？
答案是……不会。你拥有的四个临时生命条是同步折损的。也就是说，你受到20点伤害后，你依旧拥有4个临时生命，但是其数值分别变成了8、6、13、22。
艾斯哲酱，您需要回去仔细看规则原文，到计算HP上限的时候取高42点这里是没问题的，但是受到20点伤害之后临时生命并不是22点，因为优先扣除最先结束的那个效果。那么我们假设42点这个是最先结束的，那么他确实会被扣除成22点，此时计算HP上限的时候临时生命确实是会变成次高的33点的，因为你的4个临时生命效果会变成：28、26、33、22，这四个效果依然同时存在，根据RC的原则不难得出以上结论。
如果真的应该这么计算，那么为什么临时生命不能叠加。。。这和叠加了有什么区别。。。
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这是说不同源的四个效果，当然和叠加了没有区别...因为就是叠加了...
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我记得是因为同名所以“不叠加”
但是实际上和叠加没区别。。。
叫做不叠加不过是维持规则的统一而不要增加特例而已。
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吸血鬼之触给的临时生命只是这个法术造成的伤害，近战武器给的是不算的。
你自己理解错了，武器部分的伤害计入。请确认吸血鬼之触的叙述
“At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round. ”
喵认为，近战攻击和法术是完全无关的两个部分
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不同源的临时HP叠加。
同源的临时HP不叠加，只取高。
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另外， Arcane Channeling的处理规则：
If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.
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我记得是因为同名所以“不叠加”
但是实际上和叠加没区别。。。
叫做不叠加不过是维持规则的统一而不要增加特例而已。
什么是记得...
你看那段被反复贴出来的faq的话，很清楚的是两种情况
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别跟某说RC :em013
不过某这里说的是同源的多个效果的取高不叠的处理方法，RC提出的处理方法是用来解决不同源的叠加的
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同源不叠单取高值，非同源共存不叠
-
转一段规则原文好了
Temporary Hit Points
Through magic or the use of special abilities, a creature can
gain a number of hit points called temporary hit points.
When a creature gains temporary hit points, note its current
hit point total. If the temporary hit points go away through
a means other than damage, the creature’s hit points drop to
its current hit point total. If the creature has taken damage so
that its hit points are equal to or lower than the noted current
hit point total when the temporary hit points go away, all the
temporary hit points have already been lost. The creature’s
hit point total doesn’t drop further.
Temporary hit points gained from multiple applications
of the same effect don’t stack. Instead, the highest number
of temporary hit points gained from that effect apply.
If temporary hit points are gained from multiple, different
sources that stack, keep track of those sources and when they
were gained separately. Any damage taken is first subtracted
from the oldest effect that granted temporary hit points.
When those are gone, subtract damage from the next oldest
effect, and so on.
When temporary hit points are lost, they can’t be restored
like normal hit points can be, even by magic.
在一个讨论临时生命值是否叠加的帖子里面找到的，给后面的讨论者用于参考
http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=38959.0
四次不同的吸血鬼之触是无法叠加的，但是在本例中，是由一次吸血鬼之触形成的四次临时生命。此时是否算multiple applications
of the same effect呢？
请后面的同学发表下看法。
算不算multiple stack其实压根无所谓。
举例说，假如你同时拥有28、26、33、42四个临时生命效果，自然是取高42点。这时候如果你受到20点伤害，临时生命值就会变成22点。
到这里都没什么疑问吧……那么，由于你的其他三个临时生命高于22，你的临时hp会变成次高的33么？
答案是……不会。你拥有的四个临时生命条是同步折损的。也就是说，你受到20点伤害后，你依旧拥有4个临时生命，但是其数值分别变成了8、6、13、22。
艾斯哲酱，您需要回去仔细看规则原文，到计算HP上限的时候取高42点这里是没问题的，但是受到20点伤害之后临时生命并不是22点，因为优先扣除最先结束的那个效果。那么我们假设42点这个是最先结束的，那么他确实会被扣除成22点，此时计算HP上限的时候临时生命确实是会变成次高的33点的，因为你的4个临时生命效果会变成：28、26、33、22，这四个效果依然同时存在，根据RC的原则不难得出以上结论。
如果真的应该这么计算，那么为什么临时生命不能叠加。。。这和叠加了有什么区别。。。
继续打回去看原文，不同源加值同时存在，但是在计算涉及当前HP的效果（例如法术：律令死亡（Powerword, Kill））的时候，只计算原始HP+最高的临时生命=当前生命
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吸血鬼之触给的临时生命只是这个法术造成的伤害，近战武器给的是不算的。
你自己理解错了，武器部分的伤害计入。请确认吸血鬼之触的叙述
“At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round. ”
喵认为，近战攻击和法术是完全无关的两个部分
终于有一个能看明白这个职业能力和法术到底在说什么的人出现了……
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不同源的临时HP叠加。
同源的临时HP不叠加，只取高。
打回去看RC原文
-
别跟某说RC :em013
不过某这里说的是同源的多个效果的取高不叠的处理方法，RC提出的处理方法是用来解决不同源的叠加的
你的举例明显有问题啊，如果是同源多个效果的话，根本不会同时存在啊，效果会根据法术释放者的选择或法术具体说明覆盖的，最终只有一个会存在，不会有你说的同时存在26、28、33、42四个同源临时生命这种诡异的效果的……
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同源不叠单取高值，非同源共存不叠
这个说法基本上是比较准确的对RC关于临时生命处理原则的简化版了（因为没有涉及扣减原则所以是简化版）
-
别跟某说RC :em013
不过某这里说的是同源的多个效果的取高不叠的处理方法，RC提出的处理方法是用来解决不同源的叠加的
你的举例明显有问题啊，如果是同源多个效果的话，根本不会同时存在啊，效果会根据法术释放者的选择或法术具体说明覆盖的，最终只有一个会存在，不会有你说的同时存在26、28、33、42四个同源临时生命这种诡异的效果的……
某举那个例子是想证明取高不叠和同时存在原理上是同样效果……
鬼知道RC会给一个实际上可以叠的规则说明啊233
话说回来这样处理难道不是很脑洞么，不同源的就让它叠了不好么ORZ除非这个单位可能受到大于本身HP+暂时HP中最高者的瞬间伤害，不然这样处理和不同源直接叠了有什么区别
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你们就没发现，楼主都被你们吓跑了吗？
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Arcane Channeling (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, you can use a standard action to cast any touch spell you know and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.
这个引文我接受，没有问题的。
这下没有抗击打能力了，只能找其他角色来tank
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无关贴已删除，正常讨论中请注意语气，如果不能控制自己的情绪和战意，特别是人身攻击欲望的话可以不用进某些贴子。
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别跟某说RC :em013
不过某这里说的是同源的多个效果的取高不叠的处理方法，RC提出的处理方法是用来解决不同源的叠加的
你的举例明显有问题啊，如果是同源多个效果的话，根本不会同时存在啊，效果会根据法术释放者的选择或法术具体说明覆盖的，最终只有一个会存在，不会有你说的同时存在26、28、33、42四个同源临时生命这种诡异的效果的……
某举那个例子是想证明取高不叠和同时存在原理上是同样效果……
鬼知道RC会给一个实际上可以叠的规则说明啊233
话说回来这样处理难道不是很脑洞么，不同源的就让它叠了不好么ORZ除非这个单位可能受到大于本身HP+暂时HP中最高者的瞬间伤害，不然这样处理和不同源直接叠了有什么区别
有区别啊，你看我都说了对于power word系列的法术有非常大的区别啊！以及受到大于本身HP+暂时HP中最高者的瞬间伤害是没问题的，因为会先扣除各种暂时HP（都说了最高了我可以默认至少2个不同源暂时HP效果存在么），所以最后本身HP能剩下点儿，但是power word这种中了不扣血直接死逼的就不一样了呀
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弱弱的问一句，13级的暮刃是怎么做到单攻击伤害180+的。看后面重击后280+的伤害，貌似去除吸血鬼之触后的纯物理伤害在120左右，大概是怎么做到的。而且是在旋风攻击里面，好厉害 :em009