作者 主题: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板  (阅读 13767 次)

副标题: 群体分担特性

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3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 于: 2013-01-20, 周日 23:36:46 »
Special Qualities: A mob retains all the special quali-
ties of the base creature. In addition, it gains the following
special quality.
Mob Anatomy (Ex): A mob has no clear front or back
and no discernible anatomy, so it is not subject to critical
hits or sneak attacks. A mob cannot be flanked, tripped,
grappled, or bull rushed.
Unlike standard swarms, mobs are made up of rela-
tively small numbers of individual creatures, so spells or
effects that target specific numbers of creatures can have
an effect on a mob. Each specific creature that is slain,
disabled, or otherwise incapacitated by spells or effects
that target specific creatures bestows two negative levels
on the mob. A mob that gains negative levels equal to its
Hit Dice breaks up as if reduced to 0 hit points. Negative
levels gained in this manner are not the result of nega-
tive energy (and thus cannot be blocked by death ward or
removed by restoration), but never result in permanent
level loss. A mob takes half again as much damage (+50%)
from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash
weapons and evocation spells.

想问问单体伤害类法术,比如灼热射线是否收到影响,法师用灼热射线攻击群体内的一个个体,然后伤害是完整的体型在群体上还是只是给群体带来两个负向等级

附中文版
劇透 -   :
群体分担(特异):群体在结构上没有明确地正面或背面也不存在明确的生理结构,因此不会遭到重击或偷袭。群体不会措手不及,遭擒抱,受摔绊或被冲撞。不像标准的集群,群体由于较少数量的个体生物组成,因此标示有对群体生物有效的法术或效果能够正常影响群体。对特定目标施放的能够让某个特定目标死亡或使其残废,瘫痪或者造成类似情况的法术,可以给群体造成两个负向等级。负向等级最多能够让群体的生命骰降到0这时就会溃散。这种方式带来的负向等级不属于负能量(而且不能被防死结界防护,或由复原术恢复),但是不会导致永久等级丧失。受到区域性攻击法术或效果伤害时增加伤害(+50%),例如泼溅武器和塑能法术。
« 上次编辑: 2013-01-21, 周一 00:08:01 由 ZZLL »

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Re: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 回帖 #1 于: 2013-01-21, 周一 00:15:27 »
看起来明显是单体效果可以影响群体中的个别生物,然后个别生物的状况导致群体掉负向等级,通篇就没提到过群体的HP么
这个人已经懒得什么都不想留下了

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Re: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 回帖 #2 于: 2013-01-21, 周一 00:20:56 »
就算不是法术,通常的武器也不能正常伤害群体本身的HP,而是打个体掉HD,群体本身的HP就只在AOE的时候生效吧
这个人已经懒得什么都不想留下了

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Re: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 回帖 #3 于: 2013-01-21, 周一 00:26:45 »
果然被坑了吗
拿英文压人什么的果然是最讨厌了

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Re: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 回帖 #4 于: 2013-01-21, 周一 13:52:02 »
这个判法和我的理解不太一致。

关于群体模板,和任何一个普通模板相同,是添加到一个基础生物之上的模板。基础生物获得由模板提供的能力,保留或者失去其原有的一些能力。

在群体模板的描述中,没有提到任何关于“生物免疫武器伤害”或者“生物免疫法术伤害”的描述。那么我认为,添加此模板后的生物,应当如同基础生物一般,受到任何正常的伤害。而不应该因为觉得群体与集群相似,就将集群的免疫伤害能力转嫁给群体。

至于在原帖中提到的那段话,那段话是说针对单体的法术可以作用于群体中的个体。如果这些法术造成了slain或者paralyze等等效果,则群体受到负向等级。对于不造成slain或者paralyze等等效果的法术(比如魔法飞弹),这段话并没有说会造成怎样的效果,所以应该正常处理(魔法飞弹正常造成伤害)。
我因为常见些但愿不如所料,以为未毕竟如所料的事,却每每恰如所料的起来,所以很恐怕这事也一律。

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Re: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 回帖 #5 于: 2013-01-21, 周一 14:07:12 »
就算不是法术,通常的武器也不能正常伤害群体本身的HP,而是打个体掉HD,群体本身的HP就只在AOE的时候生效吧

第一:此模板没有任何关于“武器不能对其制造HP伤害”的特性,也没有“免疫HP伤害”的特性
第二:群体模板的原理是个体伤害群体分担,而非集群的单体伤害免疫或者减免。群体模板带来的大量HP保证了这一效果
第三:原文片段中的用词是slain,特指即死型魔法或者效果,跟kill不同。并且原文有“单体魔法正常作用”的描述,故此片段是对“能使群体中的个体在不受HP伤害情况下立刻失去战斗力”的单体法术对群体的效果的描述。而造成伤害的单体法术依然正常作用。举个例子,魔法飞弹造成的伤害由群体HP分担,而一个豁免失败的死亡一指杀死了其中的个体,使得群体受到负向等级。
第四:如果按你的解释,我进去大旋风/大顺劈,则何如?

以上。

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Re: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 回帖 #6 于: 2013-01-21, 周一 14:09:48 »
明显是不完全的资料造成理解偏差。mob是视为一个生物计算的,血量啊什么的也写很清楚。
是可以打单体,但具体到射线我认为不行。因为射线是没有目标的。

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Re: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 回帖 #7 于: 2013-01-21, 周一 14:25:29 »
我不这么认为,原文中
引用
Unlike standard swarms, mobs are made up of rela-
tively small numbers of individual creatures, so spells or
effects that target specific numbers of creatures can have
an effect on a mob.
很明显将群体的抗性和通常集群相比,那么所列出的就应该是和集群的不同之处,没有列出的就该视为和集群相同
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Re: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 回帖 #8 于: 2013-01-21, 周一 14:25:46 »
如果有人懒得翻书,那么原文全文在这里。
劇透 -   :
MOBS
An angry mob represents the most dangerous form of crowd. An angry mob might or might not be enraged at the PCs,but as a general rule the mob mentality overrides the desires and goals of an individual in a mob, and PCs who happen to get in the way could fi nd themselves the focus of the mob’s rage.
A mob is treated as a single entity similar to a swarm, except that it is made of larger creatures. A mob can be
composed of Small, Medium, or Large creatures, but all the individual creatures must be of the same type. A mob
that incorporates a crowd of goblins and a crowd of chokers is best modeled by two separate mobs. You can use the
following template to create specifi c types of mobs.
“Mob” is an acquired template that can be added to any Small, Medium, or Large creature. Generally, mobs are
transitory; after forming, a mob lasts for, at most, 1d4+1 hours before breaking up. Most mobs break up naturally
far sooner, once the condition that caused their formation is no longer a factor. A mob uses all the base creature’s
statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type:
A mob is a Gargantuan creature composed of either forty-eight Small or Medium creatures or twelve Large creatures. The mob’s type remains unchanged from the base creature.Hit Dice: A mob has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit
points. All mobs have 30 Hit Dice; this number represents the mob’s mentality and physical mass rather than its race
or class, since the individual members of a mob don’t use their own abilities or experience to aid the whole. The
type of Hit Dice rolled is set by the mob’s racial Hit Dice, not any class levels the mob might have. Thus, a mob of
commoners would roll d8s for hit points, not d4s. Reducing a mob to 0 hit points or lower causes it to
break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Mobs are never
staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage.
Initiative:
A mob’s initiative modifi er is always +0.
Speed:
A mob’s speed is 10 feet slower than that of the base creature.
Armor Class:
As the base creature, modifi ed by –4 for the mob’s Gargantuan size.
Base Attack:
Since all mobs have 30 Hit Dice, their base attack bonuses are set depending upon their type.
Mob Type Base Attack Bonus
Fey or undead +15
Aberration, animal, construct, elemental, giant, humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin +22
Dragon, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or outsider +30
Grapple:
As base attack bonus, modifi ed by +12 for its size, and as appropriate for its Strength modifier.
Attack/Full Attack:
Mobs don’t make standard attacks. Rather, they are treated similar to swarms in combat. A mob deals 5d6 points of bludgeoning damage to any creature whose space it occupies at the end of its move, with no attack roll needed. Mob attacks ignore concealment and cover. A mob’s attacks are nonmagical, unless the base creature’s attacks are considered magical. Damage reduction applies to mob attacks.
Space/Reach:
A mob occupies a square 20 feet on a side, but its reach is 0 feet. In order to attack, it moves into an opponent’s space, which provokes an attack of opportunity. It can occupy the same space as a creature, since it tramples over and moves around its victim. A mob can move through squares occupied by enemies, and vice versa, without impediment, although a mob provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so. A mob can move through openings large enough for its component creatures. Larger mobs are represented by multiples of single mobs. The area occupied by larger mobs is completely shapeable, though the mob usually remains in contiguous squares.
Attack Options:
A mob’s mentality is fueled by emotion; as a result, the individual creatures that make up the mob are unable to use any attack options that require actions, such as breath weapons, spell-like abilities, and the like. If the base creature has attack options that affect the damage it deals (such as poison, energy drain, ability damage, improved grab, constrict, rend, or swallow whole), those special attacks function normally on any creature damaged by the mob. Attack options such as gaze weapons that function constantly continue to function normally. The save DCs for any of these attacks should be recalculated based on the mob’s 30 Hit Dice. In addition, mobs gain one or both of the following attack options.
Expert Grappler (Ex):
A mob can maintain a grapple without penalty and still make attacks against other targets
(normally, attacking other targets while grappling imposes a –20 penalty on grapple checks). A mob is never considered
flat-footed while grappling.
Trample (Ex):
A mob that simply moves over a creature and doesn’t end its movement with that creature in one of its occupied squares can trample the creature. A trampled creature takes damage equal to 2d6 points + 1-1/2 times the mob’s Strength modifi er. The victim can either make an attack of opportunity against the mob or make a Reflex save (DC 25 + the mob’s Str modifi er) to take half damage.
Special Qualities:
A mob retains all the special qualities of the base creature. In addition, it gains the following special quality.
Mob Anatomy (Ex):
A mob has no clear front or back and no discernible anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or sneak attacks. A mob cannot be fl anked, tripped, grappled, or bull rushed. Unlike standard swarms, mobs are made up of relatively small numbers of individual creatures, so spells or effects that target specifi c numbers of creatures can have an effect on a mob. Each specifi c creature that is slain, disabled, or otherwise incapacitated by spells or effects that target specifi c creatures bestows two negative levels on the mob. A mob that gains negative levels equal to its Hit Dice breaks up as if reduced to 0 hit points. Negative levels gained in this manner are not the result of negative energy (and thus cannot be blocked by death ward or removed by restoration), but never result in permanent level loss. A mob takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and evocation spells. Although mobs are treated as one creature, it sometimes becomes necessary to determine the fate of a specific individual caught up in the mob. If a mob is dispersed by nonlethal attacks, there are no casualties. If the mob is
dispersed by lethal attacks, assume that 30% of its number are slain and 30% are reduced to 0 hit points. To determine
a specifi c individual’s fate, simply roll d%: a result of 01–30 indicates death, 31–60 indicates the victim is reduced to 0
hit points, and a roll of 61–100 indicates the victim escapes relatively unscathed.
Saves:
A mob’s saving throws are calculated as for a 30 HD creature of its type. Amob’s base good save is +17, and its base bad save is +9.
Abilities:
A mob’s abilities are the same as the base creature, except that its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores drop to 10. If the base creature’s Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma scores are already lower than 10, they do not change.
Skills:
Same as the base creature; do not recalculate based on the mob’s 30 Hit Dice. The mob’s new Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma scores might grant some skills different modifi ers.
Feats:
Same as the base creature; all mobs gain Improved Bull Rush and Improved Overrun as bonus feats.
Organization:
Solitary, pair, or gang (3–12 mobs).
Challenge Rating:
8, or +2 if the base creature’s CR is 7 or higher.
Advancement: —.
Level Adjustment: —.

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Re: 3R 关于DMG2里的群体模板
« 回帖 #9 于: 2013-01-21, 周一 14:32:17 »
就算不是法术,通常的武器也不能正常伤害群体本身的HP,而是打个体掉HD,群体本身的HP就只在AOE的时候生效吧
第一:此模板没有任何关于“武器不能对其制造HP伤害”的特性,也没有“免疫HP伤害”的特性
第二:群体模板的原理是个体伤害群体分担,而非集群的单体伤害免疫或者减免。群体模板带来的大量HP保证了这一效果
第三:原文片段中的用词是slain,特指即死型魔法或者效果,跟kill不同。并且原文有“单体魔法正常作用”的描述,故此片段是对“能使群体中的个体在不受HP伤害情况下立刻失去战斗力”的单体法术对群体的效果的描述。而造成伤害的单体法术依然正常作用。举个例子,魔法飞弹造成的伤害由群体HP分担,而一个豁免失败的死亡一指杀死了其中的个体,使得群体受到负向等级。
第四:如果按你的解释,我进去大旋风/大顺劈,则何如?
以上。
对于12,我们理解不同
对于3,slain什么时候有特指即死型魔法或效果的作用了?求详细,我没见过这个术语的定义
对于4,恭喜你秒杀了一个群体
这个人已经懒得什么都不想留下了