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关于"措手不及"的一些讨论
« 于: 2020-12-12, 周六 12:59:36 »
根据CRB基本规则,只有在战斗中自己行动前才处于“措手不及”状态。在其他无法将敏捷调整值应用至AC上的大部分情况,以及被夹击的情况下,虽然可以提供偷袭攻击,但并不被视为“措手不及”。

引用
引用
措手不及(Flat-Footed):在战斗开始,你有机会进行行动(一般来说,也就是一直到在你的第一个普通战斗轮中你的先攻位)前,你处于措手不及状态。在此状态下你无法将自己的敏捷修正(如果有)加至AC上。拥有特殊能力、足够高等级的野蛮人和盗贼不会处于措手不及,拥有这些能力的角色在他们的第一个战斗轮中行动之前,仍然能进行藉机攻击并在AC上应用自己的敏捷修正。除非拥有“战斗反射”专长,否则措手不及的角色无法进行藉机攻击。
引用
偷袭(Sneak Attack):如果一名盗贼可以在对手无法有效防御自己时做出攻击,她可以攻击对手的要害以造成额外伤害。在目标无法应用敏捷加值在防御等级上的时候(无论目标是否有敏捷加值),或是盗贼夹击目标的时候,盗贼的攻击造成额外伤害。1级时额外伤害是1d6,并且在之后的每2级都再增加1d6。如果盗贼在偷袭时造成了重击,额外伤害不会翻倍。远程攻击只有在30尺内时才可以算作偷袭。
引用
无助的目标(Helpless Defenders)
如果一个目标被束缚(bound)、睡眠(sleeping)、麻痹(paralyzed)或失去意识(unconscious),除非你手下留情,否则它对你视为无助。无助的角色同时也视为处于措手不及状态。

在构筑一些build的时候,因为专长里提到要求敌人“措手不及”,特意搜了一下措手不及相关的资源,发现一个矛盾的地方。

引用
MaterialAdvance Warning
Source Pathfinder #22: The End of Eternity pg. 75
You can shout warnings to nearby allies, preventing them from being caught off guard.

Prerequisites: Cha 15.

Benefit: All allies within 15 feet of you are only flat-footed during the first round of combat until your first turn. This does not prevent them from being flat-footed due to other situations, like being flanked. In addition, all allies within 15 feet of you gain a +1 dodge bonus to their Armor Class against all ranged attacks. These benefits only apply to those allies who can hear and understand you.

根据这个专长的说法,“这并不能防止他们因其他情况而措手不及,比如被夹击。”表明在这里被夹击也被视为措手不及(至少被夹击他的人视为措手不及)。

那么问题来了,“措手不及”到底包不包括其他允许进行偷袭的情况,被夹击会被视为对夹击你的人措手不及吗?因为除无助外的其他原因而失敏会措手不及吗?
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Re: 关于"措手不及"的一些讨论
« 回帖 #1 于: 2020-12-12, 周六 13:17:12 »
引用
Edge Runner
Source Heroes of the Streets pg. 28
You move with speed and assurance in places that cause others to fall into danger.

Prerequisites: Dex 13.

Benefit: You can move at full speed while using Acrobatics to balance on narrow surfaces, and do not become flat-footed or lose your Dexterity bonus to AC while doing so. You also gain a +4 bonus on Climb checks to catch yourself while falling. You also gain a +4 bonus on saving throws against effects that would cause you to fall into a pit (such as create pit or a pit trap). This bonus does not apply to your CMD against bull rush or trip attacks.

根据这里所说的话,使用特技技能保持平衡时(无特殊专长下)也会措手不及。
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Re: 关于"措手不及"的一些讨论
« 回帖 #2 于: 2020-12-12, 周六 13:34:40 »
又看到闷棍师的战策描述

引用
You can spend 10 stamina points to use this feat on one attack against an opponent you are flanking, instead of one that is flat-footed.

这里又不把夹击对象视为措手不及了。
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造成措手不及
« 回帖 #3 于: 2020-12-12, 周六 13:51:49 »
顺手整理了一下能造成措手不及状态的专长
劇透 -   :
Blade Binder (Combat)
Source Pathfinder Campaign Setting pg. 119
Not only are you skilled at binding your opponent’s weapon, you can seize the advantage while he struggles to retrieve his blade.

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4, proficiency with khopesh or temple sword.

Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to bind an opponent’s weapon, as well as any opposed rolls to maintain the bind. This bonus stacks with the +2 bonus from wielding a khopesh or temple sword. If you succeed in blade binding your opponent, your opponent becomes flat-footed until he either wrestles his blade free or drops his weapon.

Special: A monk may select Blade Binder as his 6th-level monk bonus feat.

Note: New Attack Option: Bind: As a melee attack, you may attempt to gain control of your opponent’s weapon. Make an opposed attack roll against your opponent, including all appropriate modifiers. If you succeed, you bind your opponent’s weapon.

A bound weapon cannot be used to make attacks, nor does it allow its wielder to threaten any space. A bound weapon can be wrenched free with a successful opposed attack roll, or can be dropped as a free action. If your opponent does not free or drop his weapon he cannot move beyond your reach.

While binding your opponent, you suffer the same limitations, except you may end the bind as a free action. If you attempt to disarm your opponent or sunder the bound weapon, you do not provoke an attack of opportunity, and you get a +4 bonus on the opposed roll and the damage roll of the sunder attempt.
劇透 -   :
Improved Punishing Step (Combat)
Source Monster Hunter's Handbook pg. 14
You know how to take advantage of a devastating charge.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Punishing Step, base attack bonus +8.

Benefit: Your bonus to AC from the Dodge feat increases to +2 against charge attacks. When a creature charges you and misses with its attack, it loses its Dexterity bonus to AC against the next melee attack you make against it before the end of your next turn. If a creature misses with multiple attacks (such as when using the pounce ability), you can make one such attack against the creature’s flat-footed AC before the end of your next turn for each of that creature’s attacks that missed you.
劇透 -   :
Precipice Strike (Combat)
Source Heroes from the Fringe pg. 26
Rough mountain roads are as smooth as cobblestone to you. Enemies challenge you in your home territory at their peril.

Prerequisites: Dex 15, base attack bonus +6, cragkin half-orc.

Benefit: When you and the target of your attack are both in difficult terrain, treat the target as if he were flat-footed. In addition, if you attack a flat-footed enemy from a higher elevation (including while falling), you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on your attack roll.
劇透 -   :
Shatter Defenses (Combat)
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 133
Your skill with your chosen weapon leaves opponents unable to defend themselves if you strike them when their defenses are already compromised.

Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, base attack bonus +6, proficiency with weapon.

Benefit: Any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponent hit by you this round is flat-footed to your attacks until the end of your next turn. This includes any additional attacks you make this round.
劇透 -   :
Sword's Shadow (Combat)
Source Heroes of Golarion pg. 7
You attack with a second strike before your opponent can recover from the first.

Prerequisites: Deft Hands, base attack bonus +7, wyrwood.

Benefit: When you successfully damage an enemy with the first attack of a full attack, you can attempt a Sleight of Hand check against that enemy’s CMD as an immediate action. If you succeed, you can treat that enemy as flat-footed for the next attack you make as part of the full attack action.
劇透 -   :
Unbalancing Blow (Combat)
Source Martial Arts Handbook pg. 7
With a forceful strike, you throw your foe off-balance.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit: When using this feat, in addition to dealing damage normally, you force a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = 10 + half your character level + your Wisdom modifier). A creature that fails this saving throw is flat-footed, and if it is larger than Medium size, it loses any special size modifier to its CMD against effects or combat maneuvers that would move it until its next turn. It is also knocked out of any stance associated with a style feat. You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll; if your attack roll fails, the target is unaffected and your attempt is wasted. You can attempt to use Unbalancing Blow once per day for every 4 character levels you have, but no more than once per round. Creatures immune to tripping are immune to this effect.
« 上次编辑: 2020-12-12, 周六 16:52:49 由 回归直线 »
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Re: 关于"措手不及"的一些讨论
« 回帖 #4 于: 2020-12-12, 周六 14:50:39 »
不包括,那个AP资源的文中叙述是误解。
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Re: 关于"措手不及"的一些讨论
« 回帖 #5 于: 2020-12-12, 周六 18:36:53 »
哦,说到这里我又想起来一个问题。
先前翻译英雄地精专长时,其中有一项专长【心智脱轨(Mental Derail)】造成“caught off guard”,虽然通常理解为“措手不及”但这和规则书中的“Flat-Footed”用词不同,且规则中并无这一项状态。
而我能找到的资料中,“caught off guard”通常只出现在描述性文字中,并无描述其详细效果的描述。

究竟应当理解成“与Flat-Footed完全等价”还是“失去AC上的敏捷加值(绕过直觉闪避能力)”,还是其他的呢?

劇透 -   :
Mental Derail
Source Heroes of Golarion pg. 9
Your logic is so ridiculous it can cause people’s brains to shut down in self-defense.

Prerequisites: Goblin.

Benefit: You can shout nonsense as a swift action to throw off an enemy. Choose a single target that can hear you. It must attempt a Will saving throw (DC = 10 + half your level + your Charisma modifier). On a failed save, the target is caught off guard, and it takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks until the end of its turn. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this ability again for 24 hours. This is a mind-affecting effect.

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Re: 关于"措手不及"的一些讨论
« 回帖 #6 于: 2021-01-14, 周四 22:42:44 »
引用
Edge Runner
Source Heroes of the Streets pg. 28
You move with speed and assurance in places that cause others to fall into danger.

Prerequisites: Dex 13.

Benefit: You can move at full speed while using Acrobatics to balance on narrow surfaces, and do not become flat-footed or lose your Dexterity bonus to AC while doing so. You also gain a +4 bonus on Climb checks to catch yourself while falling. You also gain a +4 bonus on saving throws against effects that would cause you to fall into a pit (such as create pit or a pit trap). This bonus does not apply to your CMD against bull rush or trip attacks.

根据这里所说的话,使用特技技能保持平衡时(无特殊专长下)也会措手不及。
有些困难地形可以通过特技检定全移速前进,但是这一轮你措手不及_(:з」∠)_