一个关于幽冥武器的问题

[aland]

FAQ

The descriptions of ghost touch weapons on pages 224
and 225 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide says that a ghost
touch weapon functions as either a corporeal or an
incorporeal object, whichever is more beneficial to the
wielder at the time. Does that mean that ghost touch
weapons also ignore armor and natural armor bonuses to
their target’s AC in the hands of corporeal creatures?


No, it does not. Ghost touch weapons allow corporeal
wielders to strike incorporeal targets (and manifested ghosts)
with no miss chance. They also allow manifested ghosts to
make normal attacks (not incorporeal touch attacks) against
targets on the Material Plane. An incorporeal creature or
manifested ghost can also pick up and move a ghost touch
weapon and can carry it along when the creature moves
through a solid object. It is the latter property that’s being
described in the text you’re quoting.


 发烧好难受:em023

[eunuchxiii]

Ghost Touch: A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. (An incorporeal creature’s 50% chance to avoid damage does not apply to attacks with ghost touch weapons.) The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder.

我认为根据描述，实体生物能够使用这个攻击虚体“并且如常的造成伤害“，而虚体生物只能拿着它，并且使用它“against”实体生物。

因此，实体生物使用带有此能力的武器攻击虚体，能够造成普通伤害（这是规则里说明了的），而虚体生物使用此武器规则内根本没有说明能不能造成伤害，只能使用他"against"实体生物。

不要说什么against也应该理解成能造成伤害，拿着火球魔杖的法师在使用火球攻击火元素的时候，你能说这不是“a mage against a fire elemental”么？他能够对火元素造成伤害么？against不代表能够造成伤害，也就是说按你的理解，你可以无视一切bonus，但是你无法造成任何伤害（因为规则里没有任何地方说明了虚体生物拿着鬼触武器攻击会对实体造成伤害）。

要曲解大家一起曲解么

你的例子只是表明了幽魂在砍伤生物时要计算伤害减免。

[eunuchxiii]

那么既然幽冥武器在对付虚体的时候并不忽略其任何防御加值，那么也就没有理由因为这个描述，在虚体使用的时候忽略任何实体生物的防御加值。

另外，在ghost的模板里提到

Attack: A ghost retains all the attacks of the base creature, although those relying on physical contact do not affect creatures that are not ethereal.

同时，ghost拥有

Corrupting Touch (Su):A ghost that hits a living target with its incorporeal touch attack deals 1d6 points of damage. Against ethereal opponents, it adds its Strength modifier to attack and damage rolls. Against nonethereal opponents, it adds its Dexterity modifier to attack rolls only.

也就是说，虚体生物通常拥有的忽视物理防具的攻击方式属于他们的SU之一，而可以拿幽冥武器的攻击方式是一种 relying on physical contact 的攻击，两者不是一回事。幽冥武器只能让这种攻击方式影响实体生物，造成“正常伤害”，并不能让普通攻击变成SU。

恩，这也是我疑问的原因，有没有规则说明幽冥武器在幽魂手里也是虚体

[aland]

Faq不是说得很清楚么.......

[eunuchxiii]

幽魂的说明中，在使用具有幽冥属性的武器攻击物质界生物时可以正常造成伤害，而我的疑问是这种攻击是否忽略物质防御？

实际上这句话并不存在于ghost touch武器的描述内，你是不是看反了？我的意思是看第一句话要误解也应该是误解幽冥武器无视虚体bonus而不会误解成幽冥武器无视实体bomus，你显然在像你有利的方向毫无根据的曲解。

关于展现

A manifested ghost can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, or spells, with a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source. A manifested ghost can pass through solid objects at will, and its own attacks pass through armor.

its “own“ attacks，使用ghost touch武器并非其own attacks

实际上这话确实不在幽冥武器说明里，但请看仔细，我是说幽魂说明中。

[eunuchxiii]

最后，谢谢ad。
感冒尽快好起来。
我已经看到ad的回答了，只是在和某人比曲解和逻辑而已。
事实证明，有问题直接问ad比较有效率-0-

[aland]

A manifested ghost using a ghost touch weapon against a
foe on the Material Plane makes a normal attack against the
target’s normal Armor Class (not an incorporeal touch attack).
If the attack is a melee attack, the ghost’s Strength modifier
(not its Dexterity modifier) applies to the attack.

实际上Faq上还有一段.

另外我是问的官网Faq......

[Ellesime]

就算幽冥武器拿在虚体手里也算虚体（ethereal?），但和incorporeal仍然是两码事。怎么可能把武器去和subtype特性混为一谈呢……

而且，FAQ不是说的很清楚了么（我当时都认为这种FAQ属于sage没话找话的那种……）。

/me 摸摸发烧的AD

[aland]

/me 头晕脑涨地蹭进姐姐怀里...

其实FAQ对很多有争议的东西解释得还算清楚, 除了那脑残和尚一堆自相矛盾的说明好像至今都没改过来...

[eunuchxiii]

能歪曲的我总会尽量歪曲的-0-
不被驳到理屈词穷绝对不会罢休-0-