关于法术辨识和类法术能力还有幽影咒的使用方法

[kiddfrost]

近来因为研究一些东西,发现很简单很常用的东西一直都用的不太对
做个备忘,顺便大家看看有没有错误的地方

法术辨识

劇透 -   :

Action: Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast, and this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors.
辨识一个正在施放的法术无需动作，但是你必须能够清楚地看到法术效果——所有应用在察觉检定上的减值如距离、不良环境和其他因素都会记入在内。

有2点以前用的不太对
1.必须看到法术效果
有一种说法是可以靠听觉来进行法术辨识,不过我没找到具体的rule,如果可以的话能否通过独特的语言来避免被辨识;另外一个问题是在没有视觉的情况下,能否因为法术对自己造成的效果来辨识
2.应用察觉减值

类法术能力

劇透 -   :

Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
类法术能力 (Spell-Like Abilities, Sp): 通常情况下，类法术能力的作用与同名法术相同。类法术能力不需要言语、姿势或材料成分，也不需要器材。使用者靠心智启用该能力。即使某个类法术能力类似于一个含有姿势成分的奥术，盔甲和盾牌也不会影响到该能力的使用。
除非能力或法术描述中有特别规定，否则使用类法术能力为一个标准动作。在所有其它方面，类法术能力都与同名法术一样。
类法术能力会受到法术抗力的抵抗，也可以被『解除魔法』解除。若某区域内魔法被压制或不能生效，类法术能力在该区域也无效。类法术能力不能用于反制法术，也不会被反制。

1.类法术能力不需要言语、姿势或材料成分，也不需要器材
所以发动类法术能力的时候,对方应该不知道发生了什么,这带来了2个结果我需要确认下,1是对手能否通过法术辨识来在使用SLA时辨识出法术,或者必须等到法术生效时才能辨识,2是能否通过准备动作来打断SLA,因为这个靠心智启动,应该没有明显的动作特征.
2.类法术能力不能用于反制法术，也不会被反制。

幽影咒法术,幽影塑能术

劇透 -   :

You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower. Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless an affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) damage. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow evocation's level (5th) rather than the spell's normal level.
Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.
你从阴影位面吸取能量，来施放一个不超过4环的术士或法师的塑能系法术的幻术系版本。除非受影响的生物成功通过意志豁免，否则法术会造成正常效果的伤害。不相信的生物只受到1/5的伤害。若该法术还有非伤害性效果，在生物不相信的情况下，仅产生1/5法术效果或仅有20%的几率发生。若被辨识出是幽影塑能术，则伤害性法术只造成1/5 (20%) 的伤害。无论受术者是否通过意志检定，只要该法术允许，都可以对模拟出的法术进行豁免检定 (或使用法术抗力)，但是豁免DC由幽影塑能术 (5环) 决定，而非它本来的环位。
非伤害性法术造成正常效果，除非受术者不信。若受术者不信，则法术无效

这个法术很少有施法者使用,相当于掉环+敌人可以多一次意志豁免
不知道有没有一些有趣或者强力的使用方法.我想到的是可以塑能给自己加弹力法球,不过如果有一个人通过了豁免,那么他可以告诉其他人这是幻觉,那么其他人再交互时会有+4加值来抵抗这个法术
另外如果对手法术辨识出了幽影法术,那么会发生什么呢?

[月夜白雨]

一个一个来解决
第一个，依然是翻译文字问题。you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast，是“你必须能够清楚的看到法术正被施放”，既不是看到法术效果也不是听到什么鬼，而是你要看到施法者正在放这个法术。所以其他疑问不成立。应用察觉减值的问题在于用来康法术的时候，比如相隔400尺远两军阵地或者城上城下，你肉眼康法术就过个察觉看看你能不能看清对方的施法者正在释放什么法术。（一般而言这个时候法师会用下鹰眼术奥术眼之类）
如果说没法法辨但是你知道是什么法术，我想这个考验的是dm的描述力和作为gamer自己的知识，而不是什么别的东西。假设我看到一堵石墙拔地而起，你说泰坦降临我也认为这是石墙术的。

第二个，最近的faq解决你的问题。
faq

劇透 -   :

What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?
Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products, but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details. Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse.

这段话的意思就是，你不可能完全没有表现就发出了一个法术类法术或者灵能力还是什么鬼，作为游戏系统你必须表现出一些征兆，哪怕是类法和灵能。这也是为什么类法术会引发ao的原因之一（另一半被我解释为你放sp会集中精神，或者叫发呆）。总之准备动作打断和ao都是没有问题的。关于类法能不能被法辨这点，没有找到明文。我的个人意见是没法被法辨，理由有二：一是sp没法康和被康，二是法辨里写的是只能用来辨识法术，spell和spell-like作为专用名词，既然法辨写只能辨识spell，那就不包括sp。

第三点，幽影。幽影法咒3r时代有一些流派，pf因为真实度问题用的人比较少。但其实这套法术很不错，包括幽影咒法 幽影塑能和幽影附魔。弹力球的问题，如果对方识破了是一个幽影弹力器，那么弹力球依然保有真实度部分的效果，也就是一个真实弹力球20%硬度和hp的脆脆的球（你可以用提升真实度的方法加强一下）我理解错误，因为弹力球是非伤害法术，所以不相信的话就没有任何效果。

[kiddfrost]

感谢回复,关于第三点我还是有点疑问,因为描述上说有伤害的法术非伤害效果才有20%的真实度,而非伤害法术完全没有
If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur
Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.
这个a special effect other than damage和Nondamaging effects在描述什么呢?能举个例子最好了,我本来的理解弹力法球属于Nondamaging effects,而冰风暴造成的困难地形和察觉-4算是a special effect other than damage.

另外过了法术辨识怎么处理呢,效果等同于过了这个法术的意志豁免吗?

[月夜白雨]

说的对，弹力球不相信无效，冰风暴不相信依然真实度几率造成影响。
我认为法辨人自己法辨通过可以判为不相信，但以各种方式告知非法辨人无法直接判不相信，最多只能+4save。
这就跟“肯德基开发出了四只脚六个翅膀的鸡啦，不要吃”，好，过豁免吧，+4save。一样

[rebelfish]

The rules here are certainly not clear, because they generally assume that the act of casting a spell has some noticeable element. Notice I did not say component, because I think the rules are silent on parts of spellcasting that are codified components versus those that occur without any sort of codification, such as the wiggle of a finger, change in breathing and other flavor bits that happen when a spellcaster makes the magic happen, as it were.
Back to the topic at hand, since the rules are silent here, I think it is well within the GMs purview to impose a penalty to the Spellcraft check to identify a spell without components (V, S, M). Since there is no real increase for spells with just one, I would guess that this penalty is not very large, perhaps only as much as -4.
This is, of course, up to your GM to adjudicate.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Edit: I should also note that I also agree with James, that a strict reading of the rules says you can make the check, without penalty, regardless of the spell's components.

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